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SS： I was speaking to Pentagon adviser the other day and he said that there are people in Washington who want showdown with China - that's his direct quote. Are there similar hawks in China who would also want a full long confrontation with the U.S.?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我前幾天跟美國(guó)國(guó)防部的顧問(wèn)對(duì)話，他告訴我說(shuō)，在美國(guó)有些人想要跟中國(guó)一決勝負(fù)——這是他的原話。在中國(guó)是否也有這樣的鷹派人士想要跟美國(guó)進(jìn)行全面長(zhǎng)期的對(duì)抗？

WW：I think the U.S.' viewpoint about South China sea is very-very complicated. There are a lot of different viewpoints....

王文：對(duì)南中國(guó)海問(wèn)題，美國(guó)的看法非常復(fù)雜，有許多不同的聲音……

SS： I am not talking only about South China sea -just in general. You know, there are people in America right now, maybe some in Administration or not who are actually for confrontation with China, for one reason or another - maybe, because of what's you've mentioned, that there's one greater power and the other one is rising and just in the matter of years it will become even greater than America itself. Maybe that's the reason why they would want a showdown. I don't know. But there are people in America who would want that. Are there similar hawks in China who would want that as well?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我不是單指南中國(guó)海問(wèn)題，而是從整體意義上來(lái)講。現(xiàn)在美國(guó)有這樣一群人，有的甚至可能在政府部門(mén)，因?yàn)檫@樣或那樣的原因主張對(duì)抗中國(guó)，比如可能是因?yàn)橹袊?guó)的崛起會(huì)在未來(lái)幾年威脅到美國(guó)的霸權(quán)地位。總之，持這樣立場(chǎng)的美國(guó)人確實(shí)存在。在中國(guó)有沒(méi)有類(lèi)似的鷹派人士？

WW： I don't think so. I think that firstly, the U.S. cannot not consider China as the next Iraq or next Afghanistan or next Libya. China is the second largest economy in the world. China fears not any hollow discourse, or hollow announcement from the U.S. China has enough power to defend [itself] against any enemy. On the other hand, China has the wisdom. We have enough wisdom to do with this very complicated and horrible, threatening, discourse.

王文：我不這樣認(rèn)為。首先，美國(guó)不能把中國(guó)視為下一個(gè)伊拉克、阿富汗或是利比亞，中國(guó)是世界第二大經(jīng)濟(jì)體，不畏懼美國(guó)任何空洞的言論或聲明，中國(guó)有足夠的力量抵御外侮，也有足夠的智慧去應(yīng)對(duì)這些非常復(fù)雜的、聳人聽(tīng)聞的、威脅性的言論。

SS： But you didn't answer my question. Are there people in China who have a similar view that there should be a confrontation?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：但是您沒(méi)回答我的問(wèn)題。中國(guó)是否存在類(lèi)似主張對(duì)抗的聲音？

WW： Of course! China is a very complication region. We have 1.3 bn population, there's a lot of nationalism. For those nationalists, they have very tough...they dare conflict with the U.S. - but apart from this, China's government is very rational. China's government wants to balance those nationalists and those liberals and to take the separate road in the foreign policy. China wants to deal with any greater power relationship peacefully and gradually and with "win-win" method, yeah.

王文：當(dāng)然！中國(guó)情況非常復(fù)雜，我們有13億人口，也存在不少民族主義者。這些民族主義者對(duì)美立場(chǎng)非常強(qiáng)硬，敢于和美國(guó)對(duì)抗。撇開(kāi)這個(gè)不說(shuō)，中國(guó)的政府非常理智并且希望在民族主義者和自由主義者之間找到一個(gè)平衡點(diǎn)，走出一條自己的外交之路。中國(guó)希望和平地、漸進(jìn)地、雙贏地處理與大國(guó)之間的關(guān)系。

SS：We'll get to "win-win", but you know what I’ve been told time and time again, from the Chinese side and from the American side, that an "accidental encounter" can spark a full-on military confrontation, a war,even. Even the slightest accident in the region. Is this something that is always in the cards for the Chinese? Are you prepared for this kind of scenario? Because there are no guarantees... Accidents happen all the time.

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：我們稍后會(huì)談到“雙贏”，但我不止一次聽(tīng)中方和美方講，哪怕一個(gè)小小的意外沖突都可能會(huì)引發(fā)全面的軍事對(duì)抗甚至是戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)。對(duì)中國(guó)人來(lái)說(shuō)沖突是遲早的事嗎？你們?yōu)榇俗骱脺?zhǔn)備了嗎？畢竟未來(lái)的事誰(shuí)也說(shuō)不準(zhǔn)。

WW： I think that yes, China is prepared for any possibility now, because on one hand China has a lot of think-tanks - we, think-tanks, think for our government and prepare every possibility. And on the other hand, that is our foreign policy is very smart. We avoid those worst situations that happened. This is a very interesting thing - trust China’s foreign policy. In the past 30 years, China had no war with any country. China is the most peaceful country in the world.

王文：是的，中國(guó)現(xiàn)在做好了應(yīng)對(duì)任何可能狀況的準(zhǔn)備。一方面，中國(guó)有許多像我們這樣的智庫(kù)為政府籌劃。另一方面，我們的外交政策十分巧妙。我們總是避免最壞的情形發(fā)生，大家要對(duì)中國(guó)的外交政策有信心。過(guò)去30年，中國(guó)沒(méi)有與任何國(guó)家發(fā)生戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，中國(guó)是世界上最和平的國(guó)家。

SS： You've used the term "mutual respect’, and the Chinese seem to use this word combination lately, which means both sides don’t challenge each other's interests. The U.S. traditionally has its interests in the Asia Pacific, it has Japan and other nations - is China ready to accept that? Are you not going to challenge that? Are you not going to challenge America being partners with Japan, South Korea?

蘇菲·謝瓦納茲：您剛提到“相互尊重”，最近中國(guó)人似乎常把這個(gè)詞掛在嘴邊，它的意思是雙方不會(huì)挑戰(zhàn)對(duì)方的利益。但是美國(guó)在亞太地區(qū)有自己的傳統(tǒng)利益，有著日本和其他盟友。中國(guó)愿意接受這個(gè)現(xiàn)狀嗎？還是打算對(duì)此提出挑戰(zhàn)？你們打算挑戰(zhàn)美國(guó)和日韓之間的伙伴關(guān)系嗎？

WW： Yes, we often, always, we feel the challenge, because of the rise of China. The rise of China has changed the structure of the Asia-Pacific and other countries - such as you've mentioned： Japan, South Korea or other countries in the South-East Asia - they cannot adhere, they can not be fit for new conditions. So nowadays China has to be patient to deal with other countries, neighbour countries. And gradually, let the other countries to be fit for China, new great power China. So, this is what I think is China's foreign policy now.

王文：是的，我們一直能感受到中國(guó)崛起帶來(lái)的挑戰(zhàn)。中國(guó)的崛起改變了亞太地區(qū)和其他國(guó)家的格局，正如您所提到的日韓以及其他東南亞國(guó)家，這些國(guó)家不能適應(yīng)新的狀況。所以我認(rèn)為，當(dāng)下中國(guó)采取的外交策略是，十分耐心地處理與其他國(guó)家和周邊國(guó)家的關(guān)系，讓這些國(guó)家逐漸適應(yīng)中國(guó)作為新興大國(guó)的存在。